[Brain?!]

There is a lot of talk going around the intertubes concerning EA's Origin and its behavior - specifically, what data it collects and how it does it. There is a decent article from Rock Paper Shotgun here: http://www.rockpaper...-and-ea-denial/

Being curious and having some spare time, I decided to look up Origin's EULA (you know, that thing all of us BF3 players accepted without reading) to see exactly what the program is allowed to do. Please note that this post is only intended to cover Origin's EULA - that is, what all Origin users have agreed to allow EA to do. This is not a technical analysis of Origin's behavior or actions after installation, as I am not currently in a position to look at that. If anyone else wants to post something along those lines, they are more than welcome.

The Origin EULA is here: http://eacom.s3.amaz...gin_8.24.11.pdf


Of particular note is Section 2:

Quote

In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally
identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our
products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of
software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as
communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

That doesn't seem so bad, right? It's just collecting stuff like IP address, OS, installed applications... seems pretty standard. But then, towards the end of Section 2, we see this:

Quote

This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in
connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used,
stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at
www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is
inconsistent with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy
shall control.

This means that, essentially, this entire section of the EULA is overshadowed by what's written in EA's Privacy Policy. Well, let's go take a look at that. It's located over here: http://tos.ea.com/le...IVACY/US/en/PC/

This is obviously much lengthier than Origin's EULA. The section regarding EA's collection and use of personal information takes up a rather large chunk of this (as one would expect from a Privacy Agreement). As this agreement covers all EA services, including their websites, most of this references web stuff (i.e., cookies, clear .gifs, etc). However, Section 4B, entry 4 contains some info on information collected "when you use our online products and services and/or play our games on your PC, game system and/or mobile device" - which would include Origin:

Quote

EA also uses its own proprietary analytic metrics tool and other third party analytics technologies to collect non-personal information when you use our online products and services and/or play our games on your PC, game system and/or mobile device. These tools and technologies use server log files, web beacons, cookies, tracking pixels and other tracking technologies to collect and analyze certain types of information, including cookies, IP addresses (including for purposes of determining your approximate geographic location), mobile or other hardware device ID, browser types, browser language, information passed from your browser (if any), referring and exit pages, and URLs, platform type, the number of clicks, information about your media, software and/or applications installed on your machine and/or device, domain names and types, landing pages, pages viewed and the order of those pages, the date and amount of time spent on particular pages, other Internet and website usage information, game state and the date and time of activity on our websites or games, information about how your game is used, including game metrics and statistics, feature usage and purchase history, as well as MAC Address, mobile unique device ID (if applicable) and other similar information.

That entire paragraph is just a list of all the info that Origin users must consent to allow EA to collect. All of the rewording of the Origin EULA leading up to BF3's release means nothing - that little entry they added about how "EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly" is mostly pointless. The Origin EULA is worded in such a way that it implies potentially collected data is limited in scope; it specifically lists only IP address, OS and application usage. However, since the Origin EULA specifies the EA Privacy Policy as an overriding agreement, Origin is technically allowed to collect any information it wants, including websites visited and length of time spent on websites.

[Rocket Ninja]

Doing a quick Wikipedia search, EULAs can be ignored in court cases depending upon the circuit.

Quote

The enforceability of an EULA depends on several factors, one of them being the court in which the case is heard. Some courts that have addressed the validity of the shrinkwrap license agreements have found some EULAs to be invalid, characterizing them as contracts of adhesion, unconscionable, and/or unacceptable pursuant to the U.C.C. —see, for instance, Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology,[2] Vault Corp. v. Quaid Software Ltd..[3] Other courts have determined that the shrinkwrap license agreement is valid and enforceable: see ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg,[4] Microsoft v. Harmony Computers,[5] Novell v. Network Trade Center,[6] and Ariz. Cartridge Remanufacturers Ass'n v. Lexmark Int'l, Inc.[7] may have some bearing as well. No court has ruled on the validity of EULAs generally; decisions are limited to particular provisions and terms.

Until there's a supreme court case determining how binding of an agreement an EULA is, EA could still be sued over it.

It's still questionable when they do stuff like this.

...On another note, think I'm the only one who doesn't buy the damn game when I find something this disagreeable coupled with it.

[cyb.tachyon]

Rocket Ninja, on 02 November 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

...On another note, think I'm the only one who doesn't buy the damn game when I find something this disagreeable coupled with it.

Yeah you're probably right.

Thanks Brain?! for looking into this, I was curious but too lazy to take the time to do it myself. Shame! Remind me to buy you a soda/drink/cookie next time!

Personally I think legally EULA's should only be able to apply to services (and be attached to the service contract) and require a typed first/last name confirmation, because when you purchase a product, that product is your's the moment you pay for it (try and stop me from backing up my CD's or DVD's RIAA/MPAA, I dare ya). Legally, consumers are and still should be protected by the act of a transaction. If it doesn't say it large and legibly on the box that I can't use the product without signing up for a service, then legally I should be able to tell the publisher to screw themselves. Even better, require me to sign the EULA at the store BEFORE I purchase the game. See how the industry likes that!

This post has been edited by cyb.tachyon: 02 November 2011 - 05:01 PM
Reason for edit: grammarz

[Blaze]

Rocket Ninja, on 02 November 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

Doing a quick Wikipedia search, EULAs can be ignored in court cases depending upon the circuit.

Until there's a supreme court case determining how binding of an agreement an EULA is, EA could still be sued over it.

It's still questionable when they do stuff like this.

...On another note, think I'm the only one who doesn't buy the damn game when I find something this disagreeable coupled with it.

You aren't the only one, I've avoided most Steam games for the longest time because of similar issues.

[Avalon]

Still don't have BF3. Origin sucks. How come the consoles don't have to deal with this bullshit?

This post has been edited by Avalon: 13 January 2012 - 11:23 PM

[SniperX]

Avalon, on 13 January 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Still don't have BF3. Origin sucks. How come the consoles don't have to deal with this bullshit?

Because I touch you at night!

[Daman]

because consoles are the superior platform