[TerranUp16]

CmndrFluffy, on 10 December 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

I posted in DICE's feedback section with a 4-page long rant concerning BF3 and asking for my money back. I'm hoping I get it.

Wat.

57H and 38M played... and you want your money back? Lawlcereal?

[CmndrFluffy]

The only time the game is fun is when I get to play with the Buttzy-est people ever. Other than that, it is the worst FPS I've ever owned or played. EVER.

Edit* Visually the game is great. Everything else about the game fails on every level to me.

Link :
http://getsatisfacti...to_get_a_refund

This post has been edited by CmndrFluffy: 10 December 2011 - 11:57 PM

[AZNguyen]

IDK what to say. Battlelog has always worked for me. Never cared for BF single player. I only played them for achievements and there are none for BF3. I have yet to have a patch break the game for me either.

DICE is working on updating the UI. They also added new Battlelog features as well. It's still a work in progess, however I'm pleased.

I did however surpassed my BF3 hours played with Dungeon Defenders

[TerranUp16]

Yeah, I'm with krazyxazn. I hate to pull the ol' "back in my day card", but seriously anyone complaining about the BF3 launch should take a trip in time with me back six years and rewitness the Battlefield 2 launch. This has been far smoother with far fewer bugs.

And honestly, it's like Bethesda games. They're usually broken, buggy, nigh unplayable near/at release. It gets fixed within six or so months. It's been pretty consistent like that for awhile now. If you get a Bethesda game on day one, you know what you're getting yourself into. Likewise with DICE games, except BC2 and BF3 are both way ahead of the typical curve set by previous Battlefield entries.

[Messer]

I'm sorry, that argument doesn't really hold up. If you buy the game at launch, at a higher price than you would likely pay if you had waited until a sale much later on, you should be paying to enjoy your time (preorder bonus, not including B2K (which I'm not sure was worth it at the moment), pales in comparison to the recent 50%, and will likely further pale to later sales). You should be paying for a finished product. You should NOT be paying to partake in a large scale bug/balance fix. Sure, bugs slip by, and need fixing, but when they've occurred in this number it is rather inexcusable.

I really don't care if it's the fault of a publisher for shipping this out the door before it was ready. If you give someone your money with the hope of receiving a finished product at a specified date, and instead they ship out an unfinished product at that date, you have a right to be upset as a customer. Technical details shouldn't matter. As the customer, you have the right to expect that someone as large as EA would have its shit together.

How is it acceptable that a company as large as Bethesda gets a pass with how broken Skyrim was at launch? Or with New Vegas? That's a pretty shitty standard for a level of quality to be sending a product out your front door. Are you saying you're okay with a studio like DICE doing that? Are you saying you're okay with a company you might be working for doing that?

It being "better than it used to be" still doesn't hold up either. We're not talking about the older BF games, we're talking about this recent release, and THIS release had problems. Are you saying that this release wasn't in some way tailored to attract new players to the Battlefield franchise? Do they, as paying customers, not deserve to expect a higher standard?

[Brain?!]

Completely agree with Messer's post. It doesn't matter if past games have been buggier, or if games from other developers have had comparably troubled releases. It should not be acceptable for any company to release an unfinished product, and if a customer feels as though the product does not live up to its price tag, he is justified in asking for a refund. Fluffy made some excellent points about BF3's failings (although he did leave out a few), and it's completely understandable why he would ask for his money back. At this point in time we can see DICE scrambling to make adjustments and address issues that should have been dealt with in beta - Battlelog is finicky at best, weapons are in need of rebalancing, the game crashes consistently, and there are game-breaking glitches on several maps. Sometimes it feels as though DICE just added gameplay elements without fully thinking them through; the tactical flashlight is one of the most absurd pieces of equipment I have ever seen, and DICE still doesn't know how to balance the mortar (they nerfed its fire rate and projectile speed, but apparently it wasn't enough; they're still brainstorming ways to counter it, something that should have been done during the design phase). Although I'm personally enjoying BF3 and won't be asking for a refund, I can completely understand why Fluffy did.

[TerranUp16]

Never said I'm ok with devs/publishers shipping broken crap out the door, but at the same time there is some degree of victim's guilt when there is a pretty clear history like this. If it's really that big of a concern to you, why did you reward a repeat offender with your cash? Because it would probably, or is probably, worthwhile anyway? Then why do you expect developers and publishers to break the current cycle and why should they even bother pretending it should be "fixed"?

[SniperX]

TerranUp16, on 14 December 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

Never said I'm ok with devs/publishers shipping broken crap out the door, but at the same time there is some degree of victim's guilt when there is a pretty clear history like this. If it's really that big of a concern to you, why did you reward a repeat offender with your cash? Because it would probably, or is probably, worthwhile anyway? Then why do you expect developers and publishers to break the current cycle and why should they even bother pretending it should be "fixed"?

tl;dr It's consumers fault that developers suck.

[Messer]

TerranUp16, on 14 December 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

Never said I'm ok with devs/publishers shipping broken crap out the door, but at the same time there is some degree of victim's guilt when there is a pretty clear history like this. If it's really that big of a concern to you, why did you reward a repeat offender with your cash? Because it would probably, or is probably, worthwhile anyway? Then why do you expect developers and publishers to break the current cycle and why should they even bother pretending it should be "fixed"?

Because I didn't know. I am one of the newer participants in the franchise. BF3 was the first Battlefield game I got at launch. And listening to you guys during the "beta" put me at some mistaken ease. Battlelog mostly worked at the time, and any error there could have been attributed to beta, as well as any of the bugs in the actual game (Tony Hawk's Underground Halfpipe Killcam comes to mind, in addition to more gamebreaking bugs like corpses that can shoot). Fact is, this game was riding a massive hype train, with barely any mention of how broken previous BF games had been.

And my trust as a new customer at launch was met with disappointment. Battlelog still has problems that keep me from playing. Why am I finding 30/40 man servers in Hong Kong with massive ping before 60/64 man servers in America with only 60 ping when I'm using default search parameters? Why am I having issues joining a party randomly pop up? Why am I still getting random unable to connect errors (of the flavors of disconnected from EA or otherwise)? Because it's not finished.

Let's not forget how bad the SP was, either. Or BC2's SP either. How did we get so worse in the jump from one game to the next? Sure, they're both very linear, but BC2 seemed to have a special interest in letting you have fun that's missing in BF3. BC2 gave you far more control over how the mission's progressed. How do I know I'm not lying?

You could open any door you wanted in Bad Company 2.

A special mention for the coop. I'm lead to believe it's mostly more SP, with a friend suffering along at the same time. Fire in the Sky shows rare promise for the game giving you something interesting to do, but as far as I can tell it just disappoints later on. I've never been able to finish the third mission, largely because when I tried to do it with Joga Battlelog kept kicking one of us off after 5 minutes of loading. Eventually we both just gave up on the damn thing. I don't even think we played the MP afterwards.

All these experiences lead up to the fact that, as a new customer, my trust in expecting a finished and quality product was betrayed. Battlelog is not finished. The multiplayer is not finished. The single player and coop are flat out not worth the money.

I can't, in good conscience, ask for my money back. I've spent too much time on it, I played along with the tram ride for too long. I sat in the theater too long. My window to ask to return my ticket has disappeared. The cashier's gone home for the day, and he's not coming back. There are good experiences to be had, in this unfinished battleground, but only with friends, and only in ways that seem to fight against the experience EA and DICE seem to want you to have. My only recourse is to warn others from joining in at this point, and to just not partake so easily in this rigamaroll the next time it comes around. You said that I should have been more wary of a repeat offender, but I had no idea what the past criminal record was. Now that I actually do I can tell you without uncertainty I won't be playing the next Battlefield game until well after it's released. I can only hope other buyers will start playing the "responsible consumer," and not reward later unfinished products.

[AZNguyen]

I like to see games blossom with patches. Otherwise how would you notice their hard work.

[AZNguyen]

rivaLxfactor's channel has some good BF3 tips

[cyb.tachyon]

krazyxazn, on 26 December 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

rivaLxfactor's channel has some good BF3 tips

I was thinking no duhh and then realized that most people on BF3 are completely clueless about half this stuff.

Should be mandatory watching for those goofballs...

[AZNguyen]

Discussion of BF3 Weapon Accessories, and their Futures! by Demize99 (Balancing Dev for BF3)

[AZNguyen]

A lot of changes coming in the next patch

[Daman]

http://www.eurogamer...ocks-go-on-sale

you can now pay to be a good player. thanks,


e: oh, also, bf3 patch tomorrow. I guess that's sort of important.

[Messer]

Well, I guess they're allowed to do this in their game. They have to make some money; having a payment system to skip the unlocks is one of the best ways to generate some money in a f2p game. Wait.

[AZNguyen]

Having all the unlocks won't make bad players good. Unlocking them on your own is easy enough. This isn't really that big of a deal.

[Daman]

AZNguyen, on 28 March 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Having all the unlocks won't make bad players good. Unlocking them on your own is easy enough. This isn't really that big of a deal.

having all of the unlocks gives a definitive advantage over other players who do not have them, and the problem is that they are normally acquired through time played. now you can pay money, and have instant access to the best guns!

[ibfreeekout]

Daman, on 28 March 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

having all of the unlocks gives a definitive advantage over other players who do not have them, and the problem is that they are normally acquired through time played. now you can pay money, and have instant access to the best guns!

You are implying the weapon gives the player the advantage. In base stats, yes, however you still need to take into account the actual player skill too. All the best guns in the game won't matter if they don't know how to use them properly.

[Brain?!]

ibfreeekout, on 28 March 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

You are implying the weapon gives the player the advantage. In base stats, yes, however you still need to take into account the actual player skill too. All the best guns in the game won't matter if they don't know how to use them properly.

Skill isn't going to help a player with an AN-94 if he comes around the corner and a no-skill-required, spray-n-pray AEK-971 or FAMAS is in his face. This is especially true in BF3's CoD-style maps (i.e. Metro), and the upcoming CQB-oriented mappack.