[Otacon]

To make it easier on tachyon, or anyone else who wants to help, I figured I'd make a thread. So.

I've got a relatively open budget, and already have a 750 watt power supply, though I'll need to pick up something to replace what's in my current computer. I'm leaning towards intel, whatever socket type is going to be the most upgradeable in the future. No particular preference on graphics card brand. Figure, depending on price, do SSD for boot drive, though I'm not exactly clear on how you go about setting that up, just windows on the SSD and everything else on the regular drive?

If you need any other info before giving suggestions, just ask. Thanks for the help.

[ibfreeekout]

With the recent drop in price of an i7-950 (from $550ish to $300) I would jump aboard that train. For the SSD, if you can find a good deal on a 64 GB drive, definitely go for it. Basically you set up the SSD to have Windows and any heavily used applications installed (Word, Photoshop, whatever you use the most). There are a few registry changes you can make which changes where your User folder is located so that programs that require it will install the files on the larger mechanical drive. Works very well and so far I haven't run into any errors with any program.

As far as the graphics card goes that all depends on what side you want to go on at this point. Both AMD and Nvidia have their strong and weak points. I personally got a 6870 because it was 1) a nice upgrade from my 5770 and 2) the price/performance ratio as well as the scalability in CrossFire applications is just amazing. I would expect to see some price drops in some of Nvidia's cards here soon as well because of the recent release of their GTX 580 early this morning.

[madhatter256]

If you're going with Intel, go with nVidia for GPU. They seem to mend well with each other.

I also recommend the i7 950. Get a good x58 motherboard (asus sabertooth, or gigabyte brand).

ibfreekout.... what registry settings are you talking about to move the user folder to the HDD and not the SSD?? It would be helpful to know. Is there a website with tutorials on setting this up?

[Gamma]

madhatter256, on 09 November 2010 - 10:25 PM, said:

If you're going with Intel, go with nVidia for GPU. They seem to mend well with each other.

That's one of the stupidest things I've heard. My (and quite a number of other people's) ATI cards work 100% with Intel chipsets.

[ibfreeekout]

madhatter256, on 09 November 2010 - 10:25 PM, said:

If you're going with Intel, go with nVidia for GPU. They seem to mend well with each other.

I have to agree with Gamma on that one. It all depends on the chipset being used and if it supports SLI or CrossFire, or even both. That's how I judge what I'm going to get.

madhatter256, on 09 November 2010 - 10:25 PM, said:

ibfreekout.... what registry settings are you talking about to move the user folder to the HDD and not the SSD?? It would be helpful to know. Is there a website with tutorials on setting this up?

MaximumPC wrote an article about this and has a step-by-step tutorial on how to make sure your SSD is functioning at its fastest throughout its lifetime, which should be more than 10 years at minimum. SSD Tweaks

[TerranUp16]

Otacon, on 09 November 2010 - 07:14 PM, said:

I'm leaning towards intel, whatever socket type is going to be the most upgradeable in the future.

Unfortunately you're kinda outta luck there as Sandy Bridge is going to be introducing two new chipsets and sockets. Basically, what's out right now on X58 and P55 are what you're going to be able to get. To that end though, if you go X58, you do have the option of upgrading to a Gulftown (32nm six-core, hyperthreaded processor; price is obviously steep right now, but everything drops eventually), whereas I don't see much/any headroom for P55. As well, X58 gives you triple channel DDR3, which will be of more use down the road than it is now, but it's kinda nice since it's sorta built-in scaling (but you will be paying for 3x2GB instead of 2x2GB or 4x2GB).


I'm working on a new build myself at the moment, and I already decided on X58 (primarily for the reasons stated above, alongside just the better overall performance which suits me well for dev work). To support that, I grabbed a Corsair HX850W, a Core i7-950 (Newegg had a sale on it for $275 and free shipping last week), and an Asus Rampage III Formula (that's still on sale right now for $260.99 on Newegg; all mobos are on sale atm). Yes, that last one probably to Stug's chagrin, lol, but the broader (albeit shorter) ROG warranty, superior ethernet controller, and known OC-ability shoved me towards it over the Sabertooth. The extra USB ports didn't hurt either xD

For the rest of my build, I'm still deciding on the RAM, but there is some nice CAS-6 1600MHz Mushkin that might lead me to abandon Corsair on that front for the first time in awhile (basically looking for 1600MHz RAM that can keep at least CAS-7 at least at a respectable price point and which can handle a little bit of overclocking to accommodate CPU OCing; this Mushkin seems to satisfy those requirements). On the case front, the Silverstone Raven RV02E has things pretty nicely locked-up (although the Azza Hurrican 2000 was a notable runner-up; Obsidian 800D is just too expensive). On the graphics front, I'm waiting for the HD 6970. Either going to smack down the GTX 580 as my top option, or going to hopefully cause a price war (luckily my GTX 280 can hold out for as long as I need it to).


Dunno if any of that helps, but I figured I'd toss it out there. But yeah, for X58 probably the biggest requirement is you'll want one with at least a couple of USB 3.0 ports, and just about all of those boards are passable from what I've seen and it mostly comes down to brand, feature, and price preference. For P55, I don't have any proper suggestions (again, a lot of brand and feature preference), but I have heard surprisingly good things about ASRock boards recently and they tend to offer very nice feature sets at lower prices (warranty suffers a tad though). I'll let others speak for the AMD side of things.

On the CPU side, there have been rumors that the AM3+ socket will be compatible with Bulldozer, so AMD might actually be the better candidate if you're looking for a longer-lived platform. You'll give up some performance in the short run, but then it's quite a valid question of whether you need that performance. But then it's also a valid question of whether you'll be able to live with that performance too because until Bulldozer releases I doubt we're going to have 100% confirmation as to its backwards compatibility. Otherwise, P55 i5/i7 should be fine for gaming for some time to come, and of course X58 i7 is top of the top.

For the graphics card... I think the options for mid-range are pretty nicely set right now. At the lower end of that range, you have the GTX 460 1GB and HD 6850 duking it out. If you grab one of the super-OCed GTX 460s (we're talking like 810MHz core and 4GHz memory), that's generally the better card of the two, and with recent price drops you can reasonably acquire those. As well, GTX 460s SLI incredibly well, so there's always that option. The problem is that I have yet to find a GTX 460 that leverages a blower design and offers the aforementioned desired clocks. As well, all the cards that do offer those clocks tend to be not the quietest (especially notable for SLI). Tbh, I'd really recommend just going the extra mile and getting the HD 6870 if you're looking mid-range. Nothing really touches it for price/performance in that category (or maybe any category) and already it seems to be scaling well in Crossfire. If you're looking for a beefier card, the GTX 580 just released, and the HD 6970 is supposed to arrive soon. I'd wait for the battle between those two before pulling the trigger on either. And as mentioned by other people here, what CPU you decide to go with doesn't really have any bearing on the GPU. The only thing that matters there is if the motherboard supports Crossfire, SLI, both, or Lucid Hydra.

EDIT:
RV02-E

This post has been edited by TerranUp16: 10 November 2010 - 10:46 PM

[Otacon]

TerranUp16, on 10 November 2010 - 01:50 AM, said:

Unfortunately you're kinda outta luck there as Sandy Bridge is going to be introducing two new chipsets and sockets. Basically, what's out right now on X58 and P55 are what you're going to be able to get. To that end though, if you go X58, you do have the option of upgrading to a Gulftown (32nm six-core, hyperthreaded processor; price is obviously steep right now, but everything drops eventually), whereas I don't see much/any headroom for P55. As well, X58 gives you triple channel DDR3, which will be of more use down the road than it is now, but it's kinda nice since it's sorta built-in scaling (but you will be paying for 3x2GB instead of 2x2GB or 4x2GB).


I'm working on a new build myself at the moment, and I already decided on X58 (primarily for the reasons stated above, alongside just the better overall performance which suits me well for dev work). To support that, I grabbed a Corsair HX850W, a Core i7-950 (Newegg had a sale on it for $275 and free shipping last week), and an Asus Rampage III Formula (that's still on sale right now for $260.99 on Newegg; all mobos are on sale atm). Yes, that last one probably to Stug's chagrin, lol, but the broader (albeit shorter) ROG warranty, superior ethernet controller, and known OC-ability shoved me towards it over the Sabertooth. The extra USB ports didn't hurt either xD

For the rest of my build, I'm still deciding on the RAM, but there is some nice CAS-6 1600MHz Mushkin that might lead me to abandon Corsair on that front for the first time in awhile (basically looking for 1600MHz RAM that can keep at least CAS-7 at least at a respectable price point and which can handle a little bit of overclocking to accommodate CPU OCing; this Mushkin seems to satisfy those requirements). On the case front, the Silverstone Raven RV02 has things pretty nicely locked-up (although the Azza Hurrican 2000 was a notable runner-up; Obsidian 800D is just too expensive). On the graphics front, I'm waiting for the HD 6970. Either going to smack down the GTX 580 as my top option, or going to hopefully cause a price war (luckily my GTX 280 can hold out for as long as I need it to).


Dunno if any of that helps, but I figured I'd toss it out there. But yeah, for X58 probably the biggest requirement is you'll want one with at least a couple of USB 3.0 ports, and just about all of those boards are passable from what I've seen and it mostly comes down to brand, feature, and price preference. For P55, I don't have any proper suggestions (again, a lot of brand and feature preference), but I have heard surprisingly good things about ASRock boards recently and they tend to offer very nice feature sets at lower prices (warranty suffers a tad though). I'll let others speak for the AMD side of things.

On the CPU side, there have been rumors that the AM3+ socket will be compatible with Bulldozer, so AMD might actually be the better candidate if you're looking for a longer-lived platform. You'll give up some performance in the short run, but then it's quite a valid question of whether you need that performance. But then it's also a valid question of whether you'll be able to live with that performance too because until Bulldozer releases I doubt we're going to have 100% confirmation as to its backwards compatibility. Otherwise, P55 i5/i7 should be fine for gaming for some time to come, and of course X58 i7 is top of the top.

For the graphics card... I think the options for mid-range are pretty nicely set right now. At the lower end of that range, you have the GTX 460 1GB and HD 6850 duking it out. If you grab one of the super-OCed GTX 460s (we're talking like 810MHz core and 4GHz memory), that's generally the better card of the two, and with recent price drops you can reasonably acquire those. As well, GTX 460s SLI incredibly well, so there's always that option. The problem is that I have yet to find a GTX 460 that leverages a blower design and offers the aforementioned desired clocks. As well, all the cards that do offer those clocks tend to be not the quietest (especially notable for SLI). Tbh, I'd really recommend just going the extra mile and getting the HD 6870 if you're looking mid-range. Nothing really touches it for price/performance in that category (or maybe any category) and already it seems to be scaling well in Crossfire. If you're looking for a beefier card, the GTX 580 just released, and the HD 6970 is supposed to arrive soon. I'd wait for the battle between those two before pulling the trigger on either. And as mentioned by other people here, what CPU you decide to go with doesn't really have any bearing on the GPU. The only thing that matters there is if the motherboard supports Crossfire, SLI, both, or Lucid Hydra.

On the graphics card suggestions, the 5870 really isn't worth the ~50 or so more it is over a 6870? I don't think I'm waiting around to spend spend upwards of ~500+ on a GTX580 or 6970, personally, as that alone nearly doubles the price of the computer. Can anyone confirm that my 750W PSU will be enough for the hardware you're all suggesting?

I also think I'm going with that sabertooth, it looks to be significantly less, especially since that mobo sale is only 48 hours and is going to be over before I buy anything. I need word back on the card as the promo code that'd get me a 5870 for $300(after mail-in rebate too) expires in 2 days.

[madhatter256]

The 750watt that you have, what brand is it?

Most likely, I will say yes it will handle it all depending if it's a well-known PSU, such as Corsair, Antec to name a few.

If you ever want to do SLI/X-fire on top of an i7, then I would recommend a higher grade PSU.


If you subscribe to newegg's email newsletter you should have gotten a promo-code that would take off 10% of the price of the video card. That's how I spent $273 on my Sapphire 5870 Radeon last week and I still have a $30 mail-in-rebate, so if that goes through I would end up spending $243 on the video card.

The 5870 performs a lot better than the 6870.

IF you can wait, I would wait until the 69xx radeon series come out and how they stack up against the nVidia 580.

Of course, waiting for the next best thing can feel like forever if you're anxious to get a new PC.


Overall, an X58 chipset, such as the Sabertooth is still a worthy choice and will give you head-room for a good while and maybe you might pick up a cheap hexa-core cpu down the road.

This post has been edited by madhatter256: 10 November 2010 - 10:09 AM

[ibfreeekout]

The 5870 vs. 6870 is a tricky subject. The 6870 is right in between the 5850 and 5870 in performance and I've got it overclocked well above stock specs and it performs like a dream. Also the tessellation and a few other DirectX 11 features are better optimized on a 6870 than a 5870. Then there is the discussion of CrossFire for the 6870. In most applications, the scaling for these cards is anywhere between 75 and 95%. Most benchmarks of Crysis with one 6870 (1920x1200, enthusiast settings, 4x AA) get around 25-30 frames per second. When in CrossFire, that number (same settings) goes to about 45-50. That about of scaling is ridiculous, especially for under $500.

On the Power Supply side, it should certainly be plenty. I've a corsair 650 watt power supply that is currently running my 6870, 5770, and Phenom II X4, (all overclocked), as well as all the other parts. The power usage of a 6870 is very low (uses about 60 watts less than a 5850 under full load).

[Thunderg0d]

On the HDD topic, I don't know what you currently have to re-use Otacon, but consider being able to shell out about $225 on a SSD. It IS worth it for a boot drive, use whatever you currently have as a storage device, unless you feel the need to replace that as well (could be due to age or capacity needs). My Core 2 Quad system (Q9300 is quite antiquated by about 3 generations now) still boots in about 20 seconds fully into 7 Ultimate with that 120GB G.Skill drive I post about every other week that is on sale for $200ish. I've been using an SSD since Vista and can say it made Vista even usable. There is some tweaking in 7 that is worth doing to help out the SSD from working more than it has to that I also recommend doing...I actually probably still need to do a few since I redid my OS with the new SSD actually and I'm still getting the speeds I am.

That said, core I7 is a touchy subject for me in that they can't decide on a Socket, memory depth (Dual channel vs Tri channel vs Quad channel....come on it's only a matter of time), etc. Hex core is only coming in the 1356 it appears, so I would consider that the longer term board option though i dislike buy memory in 3s even more than buying in pairs. After all, most people can't fully utilize 4+ GB most of the time anyways. I got 8 GB in my system and I can rarely max it.

AMD side, as always is cheaper, but I'd like to say they shouldn't be too far off from a socket refresh themselves. They like to do it at the 3-4 year cycle...just when people are considering the larger scale upgrade.

I have this to say still about the graphics cards, knowing you use a TV A LOT. ATI drivers work better with TVs. Always have, probably always will. Just an area ATI/AMD has locked up and nVidia tools still don't do it justice IMO. 6870s in x2 crossfire might be a considerable move if you got the scratch for it.

For a cost effective setup with not overclocking needed I would say:

http://www.newegg.co...3-851-_-Product Hex core never a bad option $180

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813131363 Board looks solid with full x16 for both cards for Crossfire $150 (120 with rebate...)

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820148323 Crucial ram isn't a bad choice...1333 as 1600 is an OC choice for the board and I said this was a non-OC build $100

http://www.newegg.co...0-506-_-Product Good warranty "Double lifetime warranty" if you can figure out what that means... $265 (Only complaint on this card is the price sucks still imo)

Even still, this only comes out to $960 if you recycle your current PC case. If not, case is your call, as that shit is unique to the person IMO. Hope that gives you food for thought for a screamer PC out of the box.

Mind you adding the SSD still would be separate: http://www.newegg.co...1-378-_-Product $250 at the moment, but the stupid thing goes on sale almost every other week down to like $215 or lower. It could be a replacement for 1 6870 with the option to buy the 2nd one down the road in a couple months.

[cyb.tachyon]

Couple questions: Do you require crossfire/sli, if so how many, how many USB ports do you want, SATA, one, two or three LAN ports? Wireless? Any other features?

Personally I'd recommend the i7 w/ [url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106139"]aftermarket cooler[/u], 6gb ddr3 1333 (you're doing videogame dev work: you'll want this), crossfire dual 6870's if you can afford it, 40gb SSD for boot (unless you can find a better deal, again if you can afford it.. otherwise get a small regular drive), 2TB storage (partition it for better read and defrag times), dual LAN ports (I've found that useful more times than I can count), and a pci wireless card.

[TerranUp16]

On the HD 6870 v HD 5870 front, imo the 6870 is your better option. Better Crossfire scaling already (and driver updates should only improve that), image quality improvements (option of MLAA- not a big fan of it, but it has its uses- and even better Anisotropic Filtering), and better geometric performance (tessellation). It's the option that won't serve you as well immediately (but you'll be compensated for that on the price front), but later it should pull at least on par if not ahead in newer, geometry-heavy games. Add in the better Crossfire and you've got a very nice upgrade path down the road for whenever you choose to use it.

[Otacon]

went ahead and ordered a 6870 while the promo code is still active. I'll look into throwing together all the other parts to get a final look over later when I got to actually order the rest.

[Thunderg0d]

As I've been saying... the sale is back.

http://slickdeals.ne...hreadid=2372813

[cyb.tachyon]

Also,
http://promotions.ne...ex-landing.html

[Thunderg0d]

Update to my recommendation:

http://www.newegg.co...Item=19-103-858 Lil bit faster CPU for $20 more, but you get $20 newegg giftcard (That I'm sure you could find a use for...)